argent_bury ([info]argent_bury) wrote,
@ 2007-08-23 09:21:00
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Current mood:resolved
Entry tags:digital people

Taking a Stand
Time to take a stand...

There has been a lot of back and forth on the internets lately about trust, voice, identity, morality, roleplay, and scores of other SL issues that have no answers.  Rather than gnaw on them every day and face continuous existential crisis, I'm taking a stand here.  This is my last post on "what I am".  From now on I'm posting about "what I am doing/thinking/feeling here". You can consider this post to be the contents of my "First Life" tab...I will post a link to this entry there.  I encourage you, for better or worse, to base all your decisions regarding me on this post.

My name is Argent Bury, and I am a Digital Person.  I exist only in Second Life.  You can not and will not ever meet me in First Life...ever. 

I choose to come here and live wholly in this world, not to use it as an extension of First Life.  It is not the only way to live here, but it is my way.


You will never know the "real" me, except as part of what I present here.  Some things can not be faked, after all.  I type in Japanese quite well, I write bad sci-fi, stuff like that.  And unless I'm the greatest actor in the world, I can't be "on" all the time, so you're going to get both good and bad parts of my personality.

I could be black or white, gay or straight, male or female, married or single, young or old.  I could be a 300 pound guy living in his mom's basement, or I could be his mom.  I could be a husband sneaking in when the wife's away, or a neglected housewife desperate for some companionship. You will never know.

I could be totally sincere about every word I say here and every feeling I feel.  Or things could be kind of a hazy dream that passes away when I walk away from the keyboard.  I could be a delusional solipsistic roleplayer, treating you all as NPCs.  I could even be a sick and malicious griefer who laughs with glee with every word I type, playing you all for fools.  I want to tell you I am sincere, although SL feelings are not as strong as RL feelings for me, but you don't even have to believe that...I could be lying through my teeth.

And guess what...you could be too.  How can I be sure?  Are you really a woman?  I need to hear your voice.  Do you really look like that?  I need to see your photo.  Are you really crying right now?  I need to see you on cam.  How do I know you're really like that in RL?  I need to meet you in person.  You could still be hiding things from me, playing me for a fool.  I need to live with you for a few years to know for sure.  Still, I'm not sure...what should I do?

The question here at the base of all this is: How do we trust people, how far do we trust them, and what do we base that trust on? 

For me personally, I'm going to base my trust in you on the things you say and do in this world, and nothing else.  And...selfish as it is, I hope you'll do the same for me. Second Life IS my real world, my only world.  The only "you" I see is the you right in front of me, for better or for worse.  Sometimes it will get me hurt, sometimes it will pay off, but it's the way I hope people will judge me, so it's the way I will judge them.

Not all of you have that luxury, and I fully understand that.  You are here to find a companion to bring home to First Life and have to know personal details about the meat body on the other end, or your moral code requires that you know something about the real lives of the people you interact with, or you feel you have to know in some mystical way exactly what the person on the other end of the narrow connection here is feeling, or maybe it simply takes more to gain your trust.  Given your circumstances, these are wise decisions, which I respect.  You are free to distrust me.  You are free to mute me.  If you own land you are free to ban me.  You need no permission to do these things to me, and if you do you can consider this post to be that permission.

But at the same time you can expect me to live by my code, and to judge you by my standards and not yours. There are others like me out there, "residents" of this world in the purest sense.  You can expect me to seek them out, to try and build a community with them, and to fight for our rights when I feel they are impinged upon.  And...because I am weary of war and strife...you can expect me to seek peace and understanding and reconciliation, even in the face of anger and ignorance.

This is my code, this is my creed, this is my life.

My name is Argent Bury, and I am a Digital Person.



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[info]vidaltripsa
2007-08-23 07:07 pm UTC (link)
Well, that's all as I expected, too. It's definitely reassuring to hear you say these things, Argent. Aside from bolstering the respect I have for you as an independent person, I'm also joyed to see you write such things so that we know we can approach each other on an even vaguely similar level.

I feel the same way you do, and although it's perhaps in my nature to generally be a little more trusting in this world (who'd play with a backstabbing doll?), I do so because the good things in SL are so worth any pain that might be caused by griefers and the like of whom you speak. I also do so because this is how I am as a corporeal and digital being both, and in many ways I feel that this sort of symbiont character is all anybody should need to trust in this world. You're a beautiful person, I can see that, and although it's something I give no thought to, even if you were lying through your teeth I'd still happily live out the lie. You bring me happiness!

I guess I could ask myself, "why would I even want to know 'First' Argent or 'First' Soph?" You and a hefty part of this digital population are as real to me as I could possibly ask for, and our glorious family manages such greatness without having any of that pressure to 'meet' out there. It's perhaps dangerous to try and think of our worldly population as people who immerse and don't, but as long as we take everyone at face value, how can there be any barriers between us?

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[info]argent_bury
2007-08-23 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for your support, hon. I appreciate it ^_^

It's perhaps dangerous to try and think of our worldly population as people who immerse and don't, but as long as we take everyone at face value, how can there be any barriers between us?

Exactly!

Love,
Argent

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on relating
[info]moggsoceanlane
2008-09-06 01:17 am UTC (link)
I see people as being people where ever you go... or whatever environment you are in. They may be solely digital, solely flesh and blood or a mix of both. When you take the time to interact with people you may get exposed to new ideas, get to do things you wouldn't otherwise do and you may learn something about yourself in the process. W

ith exposure to others comes growth and development (and sometimes pain too) and without it, you can become stagnant.

I don't tend to make a huge distinction between the solely digital or the solely flesh or hybrid people. They're all just people (or entities of some form) that I choose to interact with.

The people that creep me out in any environment are those that are insistent in knowing 'stuff' about you. It has me backing away as rapidly as I can wondering why it's so important to them to 'know'.

The right to privacy should be respected.

An article of interest might be:

***

I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy
Daniel J. Solove; George Washington University Law School

San Diego Law Review, Vol. 44, p. 745, 2007
GWU Law School Public Law Research Paper No. 289

Abstract:
In this short essay, written for a symposium in the San Diego Law Review, Professor Daniel Solove examines the nothing to hide argument. When asked about government surveillance and data mining, many people respond by declaring: "I've got nothing to hide." According to the nothing to hide argument, there is no threat to privacy unless the government uncovers unlawful activity, in which case a person has no legitimate justification to claim that it remain private. The nothing to hide argument and its variants are quite prevalent, and thus are worth addressing. In this essay, Solove critiques the nothing to hide argument and exposes its faulty underpinnings.

Keywords: privacy, nothing to hide, data mining, surveillance
Accepted Paper Series

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Re: on relating
[info]argent_bury
2008-09-06 04:38 pm UTC (link)
</i>
I don't tend to make a huge distinction between the solely digital or the solely flesh or hybrid people. They're all just people (or entities of some form) that I choose to interact with. </i>

I'm liking you more and more already. :D

I've read Solove's "The Digital Person", although I actually got the term from someone else. Good stuff.

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(Reply from suspended user)
Brava! or Bravo! or Brav-it! (I don't care)
[info]caliburnsusanto
2007-08-23 07:28 pm UTC (link)
Excellent. I wish I had written that. Somebody who gets it. Nice.

Frankly, I'm tired of all the analyzing amd bringing RL into SL. Boooring! I'm here to enjoy a separate existence. That's all anyone needs to know.

Cool.

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Re: Brava! or Bravo! or Brav-it! (I don't care)
[info]argent_bury
2007-08-23 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Oh! This is an unexpected pleasure. I've read a lot of your posts on voice, AVs, and the SL/RL divide. In fact, I just friended your LJ a short while ago. Thanks for coming by. Hope to see you in-world sometime.

::Argent Out::

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(Reply from suspended user)

[info]http://getopenid.com/dandellion
2007-08-23 08:45 pm UTC (link)
Immersionist's manifesto!
This should be printed.

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[info]argent_bury
2007-08-23 08:53 pm UTC (link)
This should be printed.

*laughs* God, I hope not! It's pretty confrontational in some places. Maybe a toned-down version would be ok.

Next thing you know we'll have a special Immersionist Flag to carry into battle. And maybe a national anthem, and special handshakes, and bumper stickers...

:D

::Argent Out::

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[info]sophrosyne_sl
2007-08-24 02:45 pm UTC (link)
Simply perfect, my love.

*laughs* When you're the first President of our little revolutionary state, I'll be First Lady and host all the (kinky) parties... :D

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[info]argent_bury
2007-08-24 03:08 pm UTC (link)
*laughs*

God, I hope I'm never anything approaching President of anything. This is purely an individual statement of ethics. No fame, no fortune, no glory.

Kinky parties are ok though :D

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[info]sophrosyne_sl
2007-08-24 03:20 pm UTC (link)
*hides the plans for statues of you in Vidal's skirts - no, wait, that's the *first* place you'll look!*

Seriously, I hope you don't mind if I link to your statement. You spoke for me better than I ever could.

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Of course you can link to it :)
[info]argent_bury
2007-08-24 03:25 pm UTC (link)
But like I told Dandellion, I do think it's a bit ranty. Funny, usually I'm linking to other people's stuff, not the other way around.

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Not ranty at all ...
[info]caliburnsusanto
2007-08-24 05:15 pm UTC (link)
particularly since subtlety is lost on most many. I find that a few taps with a rubber mallet work wonders to regain short attention spans.

I like it. :-)

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Re: Not ranty at all ...
[info]argent_bury
2007-08-24 05:20 pm UTC (link)
Thank you ^_^ I guess I'll let it stand as is.

/me reluctantly fires up the Gutenberg printing press and starts making leaflets (not!).

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[info]vidaltripsa
2007-08-25 05:11 pm UTC (link)
*Swats you playfully* Cheeky!

...still, you're free to look any time.. >.>

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[info]sophrosyne_sl
2007-08-26 05:21 pm UTC (link)
Wow, what a beautiful icon, my love!!

I think those pictures we gave Argent fried some circuitry! :)

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-27 03:11 am UTC (link)
I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Absolutely brilliant and, without a doubt, the best expression of how I've felt about all of the stupidity that has happened in SL this year.

Anony Mouse

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Excellent!
[info]vannesh
2007-10-21 06:22 pm UTC (link)
Well said, Argent. I just read this after I posted my own views.

Now that I've got that out the way, next post will be on trust....

[ambles off to find her Niklas Luhman material....]

V

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[info]faerie_h
2007-10-27 01:53 am UTC (link)
I hadn't seen this before Kate linked to it but I agree absolutely totally!

Can I copy bits of it for my First Life tab please?

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[info]argent_bury
2007-10-27 02:03 am UTC (link)
Oh! I knew lots of people have been linking to this these days, but I didn't wasn't aware Kate had. Was this on her LJ?

Anyway, this is not the Ten Commandments or anything, more of a statement of personal values - you can cut, paste, fold, spindle and mutilate as needed. Make it your own ^_^

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[info]logicalargument
2008-01-02 10:32 pm UTC (link)
Permission to friend you? I'm still trying to understand all this. Since I do have a "meat body," and I'm just beginning to realize how little I truly do understand about those to whom Second Life IS First Life, I'm taking a break from actually being in-world for a little while, to try to get a better grasp of my own definitions of reality, and the definitions of others.

Edited at 2008-01-02 10:33 pm UTC

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[info]argent_bury
2008-01-02 10:54 pm UTC (link)
Permission to friend you?

Do you mean friend this LJ? I assume so, since it sounds like you'll be out of SL for a while. Anyway, of course you can ^_^ I don't in-world friend people until I've gotten to know their in-world selves better, but feel free to IM me if you want to talk.

And we all have "meat bodies", it's just that some of us don't care about ours or those of others when we're in-world.

Best of luck with your time off from SL. I think we all need that from time to time, and it usually tends to be good for us.

Best,
Argent

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Hello
(Anonymous)
2008-08-16 11:11 am UTC (link)
I'm new here, just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

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an articulate and eloquence piece
[info]moggsoceanlane
2008-09-06 01:03 am UTC (link)
I love this piece of writing, it's articulate and extremely well written. I love it just for what it is. Thanks for sharing your views.

Some days I wish I could be the same but I'm really hopeless at compartmentalisation and already have family members, friends and work colleagues from RL in my SL environment.

For the most part I am me without my real name, my age or location with a few variations in the virtual world - some driven by curiosity, some driven by the environment it's self... some just a creative expression. Some times I behave totally out of character or step out of my comfort zone but for me there's only a really thing veil between real me and virtual me. As is the case with all three of my online identities. I have one I use for work/professional purposes, one for personal and one for second life.

Once again, I loved your writing, thank you so much for sharing.

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Re: an articulate and eloquence piece
(Anonymous)
2008-09-06 04:21 pm UTC (link)
I write as anonymous, but I'm Tonio Roffo in SL - I have no openID nor am I a LiveJournal user.

Argent, I respect your standpoint about being your digital self in SL and not mix it with RL at all, even if I strongly disagree - however, this line does disturb me:

"Not all of you have that luxury, and I fully understand that. You are here to find a companion to bring home to First Life"

If people ask who I am, and I for example tell them I'm from Belgium, or even give more details, does not imply that I'm seeking a partner on SL. Yes, my SL partner is my RL partner, but there's many people out there who do give out their details to some close to them, who meet RL without searching for partners/companions. I hope it's just me misinterpreting what you told above, but augmentationists aren't just seeking for partners...

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Re: an articulate and eloquence piece
[info]argent_bury
2008-09-06 04:32 pm UTC (link)
Your hopes are granted, you are misinterpreting what I wrote ;)

Seeking a partner is only one example of many - the rest are laid out in the chain of "or"s later in the sentence. So, while I think seeking a FL connection is *one* of the reasons people ask for FL data, by no means do I think is the only one.

Thanks for commenting.

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Re: an articulate and eloquence piece
[info]argent_bury
2008-09-06 04:35 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for your praise. Personally I think this post is a bit angry and contentious, which is no conincedence. I wrote it at a time when the Lindens were publicly coming out on the atomic side - directly relating trust to FL data, which really rubbed me the wrong way. I've calmed down a bit since then, but my basic views have not changed.

Thank you for posting here and sharing your opinions.

Best,
Argent

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[info]lettucethink
2008-09-10 04:09 am UTC (link)
I'm here via a poem featured in this month's Voices/Future Tense magazine; The poet is also a digital person but lives in the virtual world Extropia.

I'm fully a "meat body" and not a member of any virtual worlds, but it's an intriguing thought of mine that posts like this might be forerunners (even if reluctant) for tomorrow's digital people. While I'm aware you don't require validation from the rest of us, forward-thinking readers in this day and age should be able to acknowledge the legitimate context of statements like Argent Bury's.

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[info]argent_bury
2008-09-12 05:32 am UTC (link)
Wow! I'm getting quoted all over the place.

I've got a meat body too, I just think it's not particularly relevant to who I am inside SL ;)

I've thought a lot about the issues I talked about in the post above since I wrote it, and while my basic stance hasn't changed, I've refined it a bit. May be time for a follow-up soon.

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Immersionists
[info]godeke.pip.verisignlabs.com
2008-12-31 03:30 pm UTC (link)
The one thing that the immersionist approach will never acheive is independence. If you leave your computer, Argent Bury goes idle. Argent Bury does nothing independently of your control. If Argent Bury ceased to exist, your real self will endure, but the contrary is not true.

Argent Bury may reflect a distinct shard of the user's self, with aspects that you would (could?) not exhibit in real life. Nevertheless, Argent Bury will always be a shard of a more complete person... or nothing at all.

Note that someone else can "drive" Argent Bury, but this Argent Bury would lack the exact personality as the original because Argent's experiences and personality are stored in the original user. Don't underestimate this possibility though: many actors play the same role. It is in *this* way that Argent could possibly become independent, but this isn't how most people think of immersionism, nor is each "copy" made in this way authentic in the way the original is.

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